I SAW A VIDEO REEL on social media the opposite day of a harvest of shallots, and it made me understand that I haven’t grown these scrumptious little Allium bulbs in without end, and who is aware of why?
The harvest video was on Hudson Valley Seed’s Instagram account, and considered one of that New York-based natural seed firm’s co-founders, Ok Greene, talked with me about rising shallots and their extra generally grown cousin, garlic. He additionally shared another concepts for succession sowing of edibles whose planting time nonetheless lies forward—whether or not for fall harvest or to over-winter and having fun with within the 12 months to come back.
Learn alongside as you take heed to the Aug. 7, 2023 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant under. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
rising shallots and extra, with okay greene
Margaret Roach: Hello, Ok. How is that this wild climate right here treating all of you on the seed farm?
Ok Greene: I can’t imagine you wished to open speaking concerning the climate.
Margaret: Oh, he’s laughing.
Ok: Thought we had been going to maintain this constructive at the moment. No, we’re good. It’s simply been moist, moist, moist, moist, moist. And so, that’s been a problem, however… One thing yearly.
Margaret: Precisely. The brand new regular. I noticed that reel on Instagram, that video, and it was you had this particular system, this machine, that was harvesting the shallots. And by the way in which, I don’t even know if we are saying SHALL-lots or sha-LOTS [laughter].
Ok: Yeah. Is determined by how fancy I’m feeling. Generally we are saying shallot, however then when now we have every thing harvested and laying out on tables, drying within the excessive tunnel, I wish to say it’s the shallot chalet [below].
Margaret: Oh, cute.
Ok: You stroll in there and it’s simply pungent. You’ll be able to actually scent a part of what makes shallots so particular by way of each their aroma and their taste. However, yeah, now we have that particular instrument partly as a result of our values and ethics as a seed firm are about producing as a lot as we are able to ourselves in our area. And with shallots, which after all is totally different than seed manufacturing is, we have to develop the precise shallot and harvest it and dry it. Individuals are planting it, nearly like planting a clove of garlic.
Margaret: Proper. Proper. It’s a bit of bit totally different from a seed, though it’s a kind of [laughter]... We use it as, like they are saying, seed garlic or seed shallots or no matter.
Ok: Proper.
Margaret: And you’ve got a few totally different varieties, do you?
Ok: Yeah, and there’s some variations. I feel they’re all very easy, I’d say. It’s a part of what makes this time of 12 months so thrilling is to say to your self, “What can I plant now? I did all this work and the beds are prepped, and I did all this superior work and I received some issues out of my mattress. So what can I do now?”
The 2 varieties that now we have this 12 months are the ‘Dutch Purple’ [below] and the French gray [top of page], and so they’re each scrumptious. They each actually carry that particular someplace between a candy onion and garlic taste, but it surely’s its personal particular taste.
They’re planted the identical, by way of planting it such as you plant a clove of garlic, a pair inches deep, good quantity of compost, like 8-inch spacing, 18-inch row spacing, actually comparable, and that they’re going to remain within the floor for the winter. After which, they’re going to supply and be harvested the subsequent 12 months.
Margaret: I feel in one of many descriptions in your web site, you talked about this kind of umami taste of 1 or no matter. So, not precisely the identical, however there’s a sweetness to them?
Ok: Yeah, they’re sweeter. They’re extra like a candy onion, however they’ve that garlic taste. However you’re at all times searching for acquainted phrases to explain flavors, when it’s its personal taste.
Margaret: Proper.
Ok: To me, after I give it some thought, generally I take into consideration white wine a bit of bit [laughter].
Margaret: Oh!
Ok: I’m unsure. There’s simply one thing indescribable about it, which is why they’re kind of connoisseur wanted and why they’re actually costly to purchase within the grocery retailer. Really, it’s one of many issues that’s much more reasonably priced to develop your self than it’s to buy.
Margaret: Certainly. Now, since you went and talked about the phrase rain. In fact, when you hear a sound, it’s the rain that’s simply began pouring down right here once more for the 2000th time within the final 15 days.
Ok: Once more? Meaning it’s on the way in which right here.
Margaret: Yeah, I’ll ship it over in a minute.
Ok: Thanks.
Margaret: However I haven’t grown shallots in a very long time, and the final ones I grew had been what got to me, seed was given to me, I feel it got here from England, from Thompson and Morgan at the moment, and this was a few years in the past. They had been known as banana shallots, and so they had been larger than the common shallot.
Once more, I grew them from seed like I’d develop onions from seed, and it was sort of enjoyable. They had been, I feel, a cross between an precise shallot and an onion, I feel the breeding. And the taxonomy of all of the alliums confuses the heck out of me. I don’t ever see it actually defined. I see, even the 2 that you’ve, one is in a single species of Allium, in the identical species is onion, and one is in one other species and so forth.
Ok: Proper.
Margaret: You might have that gray conventional shallot, sure?
Ok: Yeah. The taxonomy is issues hold altering [laughter]. And so, we consider taxonomy as this factor set in stone, and it actually isn’t. I feel the one necessary factor to actually consider is it’s an Allium, and that’s sufficient for most individuals. We don’t should overthink an excessive amount of, however they’re a bit of bit totally different. The principle variations between the French gray and the ‘Dutch Purple,’ the French gray is what’s sort of known as a real shallot. It’s fascinating, you may’t develop the French gray from seed. I imply, you could possibly develop one thing from seeds from French gray, however the one strategy to get it to develop true is to plant, principally, a clove.
Margaret: Oh. It’s like it’s important to have a clone, a division. O.Ok.
Ok: The ‘Dutch Purple’ you are able to do both approach, however we nonetheless suggest simply doing the clove. It’s simply a lot simpler for folk, particularly this time of 12 months. However among the variations, as a result of there’s so many similarities by way of depth and planting house and time: time-wise there’s a bit of little bit of a distinction, which is ‘Dutch Purple’ shops loads longer in your kitchen than the French gray. That additionally signifies that the Dutch Purple, when you wished to hold onto it and plant it a month earlier than your final frost date, like early, early, early, early spring, you could possibly nonetheless get a harvest from these, despite the fact that we nonetheless suggest planting it on this window of October for our area.
Whereas, the French gray doesn’t retailer as lengthy, and so you actually should plant it once you get it. For us, meaning persons are ordering now. We ship in October so that individuals get them when it’s time to plant them and don’t have to fret about storing them at residence.
I’d say French gray, solely fall planted. The Dutch Purple, higher fall planted, however might be executed within the spring. And I’d say, for most individuals, they’re doing each.
Margaret: Oh, fascinating. They’re making an attempt a bit of of each. The French gray, I’ve examine it in different places and, once more, it’s the one which’s known as the true shallot. I’ve learn that it has sort of a more durable…not a shell, however a more durable pores and skin a bit of bit. Is it a bit of bit totally different in texture on the surface?
Ok: Yeah. Yeah. It nearly seems like a shell.
Margaret: Yeah, that’s what I’ve learn and I’ve by no means had it. I imply, I’ve by no means had it in my backyard, so I’ve by no means seen it uncooked, unprepared.
Ok: It’s stunning, too. The pores and skin nearly has this copper sheen to it. They’re so fairly. After which, once you break it open, it has this pink, white, purple-y sort of ombre hue from the tip to the bottom. They’re actually, actually elegant.
Margaret: Once more, the crimson one is in, I imagine, Allium cepa, the identical genus and species as onion, however I feel this one has, and the names are simply unattainable, oschaninii, Allium oschaninii, one thing like that.
Ok: Yeah [laughter]. Oschaninii.
Margaret: Yeah, no matter. If that’s even the way in which to pronounce it however who cares? It’s a French heirloom, I feel, as nicely. It’s a really conventional beloved crop.
Ok: It’s. Generally you’ll hear it known as Griselle.
Margaret: Griselle. Proper, proper, proper. In fact. You gave us the short model of fall planting: We now have a mattress that had one thing else in it; we pulled our tomatoes and we cleaned up the mattress a bit of bit, and our shallots might go there the way in which that our garlic might go there. Sure?
Ok: Yep, precisely. I’d at all times say add compost. No matter’s been in there has used up numerous vitamins. Whether or not we’re speaking concerning the shallots or garlic, they need good, wealthy soil. So undoubtedly add compost.
The opposite issues that they actually like, they love water. They like good drainage and so they like water, you recognize, that factor? [Laughter.] In case you occur to be someplace the place you’re not underwater for the entire season, you do wish to hold them watered to start with. As soon as it’s winter, so long as there’s snow and precipitation taking place, you don’t actually have to fret about it.
Margaret: What’s the yield like? How a lot do I plant? If I’m an individual ordering shallots, how a lot do I plant and the way a lot does it flip into? As a result of that’s at all times the factor with garlic [above] is every clove theoretically has the potential of changing into a head, an entire cluster so to talk. And so, what’s the yield like in these totally different shallots?
Ok: It’s just like garlic in that approach. It’s totally different once you’re planting onions as a result of one seed is one onion bulb or one onion set is one onion. Whereas, with the shallots, once you plant one clove, it’s going to multiply. So we promote it in half-pound, pound, after which it goes up from there. However for a pound of units, principally, you’re taking a look at 40 to 50 cloves in a pound.
Margaret: Oh, O.Ok.
Ok: From there, you are able to do the mathematics.
Margaret: I see.
Ok: Your yield goes to be six to 10 instances what you planted.
Margaret: Oh, all proper. All proper. And so, the gray doesn’t retailer so nicely, the crimson shops higher, in order that’s one that’s going to be an excellent keeper, and I most likely would use the gray first if I used to be-
Ok: Yeah. It’s nonetheless an excellent keeper. It’s simply not going to final you till the subsequent planting season. Whereas with the ‘Dutch Purple,’ and doubtless I shouldn’t say this out loud, however with the ‘Dutch Purple,’ you actually might cling onto it, harvest it, and simply hold replanting it. Avoid wasting to plant the subsequent season and a few to eat, when you get it going.
However the yield is without doubt one of the actually thrilling issues about it. The way in which to wrap your head round it’s that that one clove goes to show into six and even 10 or 12 cloves. It’s going to develop and cut up, so there’s going to be a cluster. And also you’ll be capable to actually see it as a result of it’ll be all these leaves, a number of leaves arising.
Margaret: Sure, and that was what was enjoyable in that video, your harvest video. You had been utilizing this mechanized instrument to show up the strip of soil that had all of the shallots in it. What was taking place is that, at every place the place a clove had been inserted, was a cluster of fading foliage, however beneath an entire cluster of bulbs. It was simply enjoyable to see the multiplication that had occurred underground on this approach.
Ok: I typically discuss seeds as one thing, or vegetation, as being beneficiant and kind of exponentially beneficiant. Normally, I’m speaking about seeds. You plant one seed that makes a tomato plant. Take into consideration what number of seeds are in all of the tomatoes out of your tomato plant. It’s greater than anybody might ever hold for themselves and plant. And so, we wind up sharing seeds. We’re sort of sowing it ahead once we’re a part of the complete life cycle.
However garlic and shallots are like that, too. It’s an extremely beneficiant plant.
Margaret: The one different factor I didn’t ask you about is as soon as we do harvest the subsequent July or each time, I suppose kind of like garlic, we do remedy them in a dry place, ethereal place, however out of the solar, right? We wish to remedy them, yeah?
Ok: Yeah. The method, and you’ll see it at a bigger scale for what we do, however that is for residence scale as nicely: You wish to go away the leaves till they begin to die again. You wish to reduce the scapes the identical approach that you just do for garlic in order that it’s placing extra power into the bulb.
You’ll be able to eat the scapes; totally different taste than garlic scapes [above, at Margaret’s]. I feel it’s actually good in a pesto with just a few different issues in it. Reduce the scapes, however don’t reduce the leaves. They’re going to sign you, “O.Ok., the leaves are executed placing their power into the bulb.” They’re beginning to die again. However you don’t wish to reduce the leaves once you harvest them. You wish to hold the entire thing intact. All of the cloves which might be connected to one another with the dying leaves. Such as you mentioned, you wish to put that someplace with good airflow, however not in direct solar, to remedy.
The leaves will get sort of brittle, and then you definately’ll see the pores and skin on the bulbs sort of shade up. When these leaves are completely dry, then you may reduce the leaves above the tip of the clove. You don’t wish to reduce into the bulb itself. After which, you may carry them into the kitchen after that.
Margaret: Proper. So transitioning: It is rather comparable, as you mentioned once you had been describing depth and spacing and so forth, similar to garlic. Even the curing sounds very comparable. The sign, studying this barely totally different sign of at what stage to reap, relying on what sort you’re rising, whether or not it’s the shallots or which sort of garlic and so forth, and when the scape goes to come back (which, with exhausting neck garlic, which is why I prefer it, you get a scape, too). And sort of studying the precise timing and every thing of the one you select to develop is at all times fascinating.
I’ve grown garlic for many years and a long time, and I misplaced my garlic for the primary time. I misplaced all of it this 12 months to the white mould of-
Ok: Oh!
Margaret: Yeah. Which is that this horrendous, it’s the actually most dangerous horrible fungal pathogen of all alliums, doubtlessly, however principally impacts garlic and onions. For quite a lot of years, it has been in our area, in New York State and in New England and so forth, and it’s a worldwide factor. I don’t know. I did purchase, not from you [laughter], I did purchase seed garlic not too long ago. And so, possibly I received it that approach, or possibly it got here in who is aware of how else. I don’t know. However I received’t be capable to develop garlic in that space anytime within the subsequent 40 years, and I’m not going to dwell that lengthy [laughter], in order that’s the tip of that.
Nevertheless it sounds very very similar to rising garlic. Some other ideas or ahas which might be very totally different about garlic that you just wish to share with individuals? As a result of I do know lots of people are most likely going to be planting garlic this fall, and so they’re most likely ordering now. I really like the exhausting neck stuff since you get that additional harvest with the scapes.
Ok: Yeah. I imply, I really like garlic. Once more, I wish to develop a bit of of every thing for the kitchen. Our selection pack really is our hottest.
Margaret: Oh, that’s a good suggestion. That’s-
Ok: There will probably be totally different varieties however, yeah, there’s the range pack that individuals love. They’re actually not that totally different. One factor I’ve realized, although, from of us who’re colder than us is that they mulch extra by way of their garlic and shallots than we do right here. I don’t actually take into consideration mulching that a lot, and our winters have gotten extra delicate by way of temperature, not by way of different issues [laughter]. I do know that some of us who’re colder discover that they’re profitable getting them by the winter by mulching.
Margaret: Relying in your zone and so forth. It’s an ideal factor to develop, and there’s a lot else. I simply wish to remind ourselves, as a result of at the moment within the seed firm, do individuals verify in for a packet of this and that as a result of they understand they don’t have sufficient to do a succession of one thing? I imply, clearly, spring might be the most important seed-ordering time, however I guess you see some repeats now, at the moment of 12 months.
Ok: Oh yeah. That is such an thrilling second to really feel like your exhausting work for every thing you probably did to get your self arrange, and then you definately’ve been consuming and having fun with your harvest, that that is the second spring now.
Margaret: What are individuals after round now? What do you hear? I’d think about salads and different greens can be one factor that persons are at all times after, as a result of you are able to do so many successions of these. However what sorts of different issues are individuals after?
Ok: Yeah. By way of seed, it’s such as you mentioned, numerous combined greens. Arugula [below], spinach, all of the mustards. Radishes; nice time to throw in one other spherical of radishes. [Above, China Rose winter radish.]
Simply to have the ability to proceed to have that contemporary consuming, that brightness, in your plate at residence and that pleasure of going out,. Nevertheless it’s issues which might be faster. Additionally, as a result of the day size is getting shorter and shorter, which signifies that the times to reap are getting longer for issues. And so, that’s why we deal with these fast sow-and-harvest, one thing like arugula which goes to be actually quick.
Whereas, even proper now for us, we’re simply outdoors of the window of doing a second spherical of peas. However we might have executed peas within the final month and gotten a harvest however now, due to the variety of hours of daylight, we simply wouldn’t get to the purpose. However pea shoots, you may sow a number of peas and for a fast harvest, I imply, if you need that taste, you may nonetheless put in peas and do pea shoots.
Margaret: Effectively, you had been one of many first locations that I ever knew about, Hudson Valley Seed was, that had natural area peas, the sort of peas that you could possibly use for canopy crop. In different phrases, a bag that was sufficiently big, not a bit of tiny packet of peas, which might barely give me sufficient for a few salads if I used to be utilizing them as shoots [laughter]. You had them in these luggage however but they had been natural. I don’t know when you nonetheless do this however.
Ok: Oh yeah. Austrian winter pea. The flavour of the Austrian peas. It’s nice to your soil. Talking of issues to place in now, cowl crops. I wish to say you may backyard bare, however don’t go away your soil naked [laughter]. It’s simply considered one of these items the place it’s you place within the work, now deal with it.
Even when you don’t wish to get a harvest out of it, whether or not you’re placing in an oats and peas combine or the Austrian winter peas or buckwheat, otherwise you’re pondering one thing that you just wish to over-winter, like winter rye. What we’ve put collectively is the quantities of these varieties of cowl crops that individuals who have a home-garden scale want, somewhat than what we used to see, which is simply 50-pound luggage, which is nice for small farms or medium-sized farms, however not so nice for residence gardens. Our cowl crops are extremely popular proper now, and are available in numerous quantities.
Margaret: Effectively, and once more, with the peas, the good factor is that you may… It’s a lot larger than a single little packet of pea seeds that you just’d use at one other time, and so you may nearly broadcast them. I don’t mean-
Ok: Oh, yeah.
Margaret: After which, let it develop as shoots, and it’s fast and what an unimaginable taste and texture to make a salad.
Ok: I really like them.
Margaret: I imply, they’re simply so scrumptious. I do know individuals who stir-fry them. I do know individuals who simply use them uncooked, once more, as a salad materials, and so they’re unbelievable and so they’re beautiful trying. After which, you are able to do one other one. I feel you may even get a number of cuttings off them, I think.
Ok: Completely. Reduce-and-come-again peas.
Margaret: Proper. A bit bit south of right here… There’s nonetheless time for peas and farther south completely.
Ok: Proper.
Margaret: As a result of that is superb time as a result of it’s going to be cooler than bumping up into the warmth of summer season farther south. However, I imply, such as you mentioned, there’s that “fall issue” as some locations name it, the virtually two weeks’ distinction, as much as two weeks’ distinction that it may take for one thing to mature with the shorter day size and so forth, the much less intense solar.
The opposite good factor, I feel, moreover the kind of salad-y greens, even one thing like kale. Child kale is de facto scrumptious and super-expensive on the natural produce part. A bag of child kale is umpteen {dollars} a pound, however you may develop that. Even when you’re not going to develop it all through, which you could possibly when you coated it, when you took care of it over the winter, however you could possibly even simply harvest child greens that approach.
Ok: Oh, completely. Among the mixes, like our braising greens combine or our final salad bowl combine, mesclun combine, these are nice to do proper now since you’re going to get a range of taste and texture and shade. You’ll be able to sow them actually dense, after which simply, such as you mentioned, as a child combine, reduce them. You possibly can most likely do two or three rounds of that also.
Margaret: Proper. Nonetheless even within the north the place we’re. The final minute, simply give us a reminder as an knowledgeable seed particular person, we must always not retailer our leftover seed within the pocket of our gardening jacket or out within the storage [laughter]. Appropriate?
Ok: We get this loads, Margaret.
Margaret: I do know.
Ok: It’s cool, darkish and dry.
Margaret: O.Ok.
Ok: And so, if it freezes, you don’t need it there. There’s only a few seeds that you just really wish to freeze. You don’t need them to freeze. You don’t need them to have numerous humidity and moisture, and also you don’t need them uncovered to daylight and warmth, as a result of these are all of the issues that the seed is searching for to be like, “Hey, it’s time to develop.” We’re simply saying let’s not give them these cues simply but.
Margaret: Cool, darkish, dry. O.Ok. All proper. Thanks. Effectively, I’m so glad to reconnect on the podcast, Ok Greene from Hudson Valley Seed, and thanks. I’m excited concerning the shallots. Enjoyable forward, I feel, and thanks for making the time. Thanks for coming in from the sphere [laughter] to make the time. I’ll discuss to you quickly, I hope.
Ok: All the time glad to. Thanks a lot, Margaret.
(All images from Hudson Valley Seed besides as famous.)
choose the podcast model of the present?
MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its 14th 12 months in March 2023. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Hear domestically within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Jap, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the Aug. 7, 2023 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).