WAIT: BEFORE YOU FIND your self on the backyard heart, grabbing up each irresistible factor that calls out to you, figuring you’ll be able to in some way discover a function for it on this season’s container designs, assume once more. What’s your plan for this yr’s seasonal pots—or is there a plan?
That was the subject of my dialog with David Mattern, horticulturist at Chanticleer Backyard in Pennsylvania, who has some container backyard design recommendation to share.
David has gardened for 10 years at Chanticleer in Wayne, Pa., the place he oversees the vegetable backyard and lends his creativity to different facets of this world-class panorama, too, together with Chanticleer’s many impressed vignettes of seasonal containers.
Learn alongside as you hearken to the March 25, 2024 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You possibly can subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
(Portrait of David, beneath, by Lisa Roper for Chanticleer. All different pictures by David Mattern for Chanticleer.)
impressed containers, with david mattern
Margaret Roach: Welcome again, David. It’s good to talk to you. We’re not going to speak about greens at the moment?
David Mattern: Yeah. Not this time. It’s great to be again, however thanks.
Margaret: The final couple of instances, a couple of years in the past, we talked about greens and placing the vegetable backyard to mattress, and selecting new greens from the seed catalogs and issues like that. However I lately learn your article on container gardening within the 2024 “Previous Farmer’s Almanac Backyard Information” journal, and I beloved studying about your thought course of, which is what we’ll speak about. After which simply a few weeks in the past, seeing the pictures of your empty pots all out on show on Instagram. It was such as you staged them, however there’s nothing in them. So, inform us about that. Is that the start line of the method?
David: Yeah. That’s the start of the method. I imply, I believe with regards to container design, we all the time consider the plant combos within the containers. That’s the enjoyable stuff, proper? So, the place you place them is simply as necessary, I believe. So, I all the time like to begin by wanting on the larger image, how issues match into the higher context of the backyard. That’s actually the place all of it begins with all these empty containers sitting across the backyard.
So, late winter is the start of my container-design course of, as a result of you’ll be able to see the naked bones of your backyard, of your panorama, and the place issues are. I’ll begin to set my containers out empty, simply to see how they’re influencing the area, how they’re creating a way of really feel of what I’m making an attempt to do, what my intent is in that area.
The great factor about that’s containers which might be empty are quite a bit lighter [laughter]. So, any discount in again pressure within the backyard, I’m all for it. Nevertheless it’s a pleasant solution to mess around and get a way of the area. If the containers are set out, even after they’re empty, they need to have an effect. They need to begin to create that feeling or intent that you just’re searching for. So, after they’re planted up, they really feel a bit bit extra built-in into your panorama and never simply plunked in there.
Margaret: So what might be among the intentions that you would begin to formulate with…? I’m assuming you place them out in your greatest guess of the place you need them, after which maybe-
David: It does take a while.
Margaret: … you’re going to fiddle round with them a bit bit earlier than the potting up stage comes and get the vignettes or the placements proper. So, what might be among the functions of these placements? What can containers, well-placed, do in a backyard?
David: Yeah. I’d say consider what your intent is. The great thing about containers is you’ll be able to transfer them round and alter them. Some individuals will use issues for utilizing containers as screening or as accent options. Containers can actually draw consideration to themselves. So, utilizing them to point a transition from one backyard area to a different, or point out the place the entrance door is, and even simply creating an intimate area inside a bigger area, so in your deck or round a sitting space.
Simply pondering of that intent will point out the way you’re going to begin to cluster issues collectively. Or perhaps it’s not a cluster of containers, perhaps it’s one huge container that you just wish to accent an extended view out into the backyard.
Margaret: The shapes of pots—I imply, I’ve 4 actually, actually, actually huge, they’re about perhaps nearly 3 ft throughout, low terracotta bowls, they usually’re my signature pots. They’re the pots I’ve had for the longest, and it’s a ritual day each late winter after they exit, empty, to their spots and so forth. They’ve all the time been in the identical 4 spots [laughter]. You make me consider a brand new place. So, I really like low bowls and this huge dish form of feeling.
However totally different pots, totally different shapes and scale and so forth additionally impacts the impression. Do you may have favourite shapes, or do you combine up shapes that you just like collectively? Do you a very tall factor with a low factor? Ought to we be excited about that?
David: I believe it’s actually very subjective. I believe it ought to be the form that you just discover fascinating actually, as a result of I believe tall ones are very dramatic and upright, and low, huge issues you’ll be able to actually change up from yr to yr. You are able to do actually low vegetation, and have a bit panorama in a low bowl, or do huge tall vegetation popping out of that. So, I believe actually it will depend on what pursuits you. I believe all of that is very subjective.
After which there’s glazes, like I mentioned, that may add to the colour. For those who’re searching for a giant accent, I name them exclamation factors within the backyard, one thing that’s actually going to attract consideration to your self or an extended view, that’s the place huge, huge glazes and actually sturdy shapes can actually assist on the market. Like huge vase-shaped containers, and even one thing daring, one thing very architectural in distinction to every little thing else in your backyard.
Margaret: Proper. The glaze factor is a giant, huge deal as a result of even a small glazed pot actually stands out. I’ve one which’s a stupendous inexperienced glaze, and I simply love placing it on the desk on the patio and it simply catches your eye. Although there’s different pots throughout, teams of pots throughout, this one simply actually calls to you. It’s simply that little little bit of coloration. It’s a bit one thing further.
David: Particularly in spring, I discover glazed containers can actually pop. Generally I wish to pair a few of my glazed containers with some actually easy terracotta colours or one thing, nearly to emphasise that glaze, the colour on them. So, I’ll have only a few easy glazed containers, two or three, however then I’ll have an array of various terracottas as a backdrop to that.
Margaret: So, ultimately we do get to place vegetation in them [laughter]. However not simply annuals. At Chanticleer you actually name in lots of totally different sorts of vegetation into the design of your containers. So, inform us about among the vary of what may discover its approach right into a pot there.
David: Oh, yeah. I say don’t restrict your self. I believe the extra you’ll be able to increase your palette and add to the range of your containers, the extra fascinating they’re. A variety of various things can work. Often with small timber or shrubs we’ll use as huge accents within the container, and different issues like perennials and grasses and different herbaceous materials. It’s a enjoyable solution to combine these in with some annuals round your container. I notably like utilizing perennials in my containers, as a result of these are the perennials that I then plant out into the backyard afterwards. It’s a pleasant solution to stretch my plant finances.
I’ll begin there. I’ll begin with perennials that I do know I wish to add into my backyard. However earlier than I try this, I’ll use them in a container for the primary season, combined in with annuals and issues. Then within the fall, after I’m able to dismantle my containers and prepare for winter, I’ll plant them out into the backyard, after which go in that two-cycle course of. So, it’s only a enjoyable approach to make use of a variety of fabric, even when it’s issues I’m going to make use of, and a pleasant solution to repurpose among the materials that you just’re utilizing in your containers. Like I mentioned, all the time good to stretch the finances [laughter].
Margaret: You mentioned perennials, and also you mentioned woody vegetation as nicely, perhaps timber and shrubs. I really like issues like Japanese maples in pots. One of many difficult issues is that—and I’ve lots of them that I’ve had for a very long time—is that they get tucked within the storage within the winter as a result of I’m in a barely colder zone the place they’ll get beat up, and the pots would definitely get beat up outdoors. One of many difficult issues is determining if you wish to have one thing as a groundcover beneath them, is it additionally needs to be one thing that may take that therapy, if it’s a perennial. One factor I discovered years in the past fairly accidentally, and it has simply been probably the most great factor, is that Sedum, that gold Sedum referred to as ‘Angelina.’ It’s only a actual prostrate, actually groundcovering one.
David: Lovely.
Margaret: I imply, it simply makes this… It’s twelve months [laughter]. I can open the storage door in December, and it’s like gleaming gold in there, a stupendous plant. I imply, it doesn’t miss a beat. So, one thing so simple as groundcover-y Sedum might end off a giant pot of a woody plant and be nearly like a everlasting pairing. After I say everlasting, I don’t imply 100 years [laughter].
David: Yeah. I actually like lots of little minor bulbs, like Scilla and Chionodoxa and Muscari, tucked into a few of my woody containers as a result of they’re a little bit of dedication. I imply, woody vegetation and containers are extra of a everlasting factor. Their root programs can doubtlessly get compromised being within the container, so that you wouldn’t essentially wish to plant them out. However they’re implausible, such as you mentioned, to take them into the storage for winter after which convey them out once more. And different little natives like Houstonia, that-
Margaret: Oh, the bluets.
David: I’ve seen these work actually successfully, actually fantastically. Notably in little bonsai containers as nicely. It’s in that scale.
Margaret: Yeah. That’s an ideal thought. The little bluets, I really like them. They’re lovely.
David: Anytime I can combine native spring ephemerals into any of my containers, I’ll do it. They’re a few of my favourite vegetation to work with.
Margaret: At Chanticleer, you guys have enjoyable additionally with containers, such as you’ll have containers with water and float flowers in them and issues like that, don’t you?
David: Yeah. It’s grow to be our factor a bit bit, is our floating flower preparations. We do them as a result of they’re enjoyable, they’re colourful, they’re fascinating. I notably like them as a result of what they mainly are is a bowl of water that we modify out day by day, and we’ll change these preparations day by day; we’ll change the water out. They’re actually what’s occurring, what’s blooming within the backyard at the moment, in that second, that day.
So that they’re very fleeting, and you actually see the transition of the seasons. I believe they’re a very enjoyable examine in coloration and texture and type. You possibly can have a stroll round your backyard and see all of the totally different colours, perhaps of the foliage or of what’s flowering, and see what they appear to be collectively in a bowl. I actually get pleasure from them; I are inclined to have lots of our interns engaged on that as a result of I believe it’s an excellent examine in backyard design, excited about type and area and texture and all that good things.
Margaret: You additionally use some prunings from elsewhere within the backyard, don’t you? Don’t you employ some branches and twigs and so forth? Virtually like somebody may use in a floral association, so to talk?
David: Oh, very a lot so. That actually got here from lots of winter tasks, lots of coppicing and trimming. So, actually this stemmed from winter pruning, and we simply began repurposing all of these branches. So, issues like Salix and dogwood and all of those winter-blooming twigs that look great in winter and really vivid and vibrant, we’ll simply repurpose these in our containers. Particularly in spring, what you get is that this prompt top, prompt coloration in your containers, the place the remainder of the backyard continues to be waking up. You possibly can have this prompt top and coloration in your containers and simply type of sticking them in. I notably love sticking sticks in stuff [laughter].
Actually it’s simply repurposing what you may have in your backyard, and it’s enjoyable to simply look in your personal backyard and see what sort of issues you may have you can combine again into your containers on your new seasons to play. It’s a enjoyable problem. So, we’ll use that quite a bit. Notably that carries by way of the season as nicely, utilizing them for trellising for annual vines, and issues like that. I discover after I’m doing that, including sticks as a construction, it exhibits that intent initially of this can get huge, this little begonia vine that’s simply on the base of my container. It will definitely will take over. However initially simply having that framework there actually exhibits that off.
Margaret: It implies what’s to come back. That’s a good suggestion. When it’s time to design plant-wise, do you begin with the important thing plant? I imply, there’s all these formulation like, what’s it?— “spiller, thriller, filler,” and all types of how to make us take into consideration design in pots. However do you start with, you’ll have your grouping and you like the place the empty pots, the way it’s working, then do you begin visualizing, “Hey, I believe that is the place I’ve this banana and I’m going to convey it and put it on this pot, that pot, in that group?” Then what occurs subsequent, while you get to the plant-choice factor? Once more, I do know it’s subjective, however… Yeah.
David: Nicely, that’s the enjoyable half, proper? [Laughter.] Yeah. I all the time say there’s all these suggestions you’ll be able to observe with issues like that, and vegetation are what convey your containers to life, so embrace that. You possibly can observe any form of guidelines. I’m simply making an attempt to gather my ideas right here. For me, I believe for those who’re going for a daring accent for a container, take into consideration one thing like a banana, or one thing that’s going to enrich that type of daring intention. So, one thing with huge foliage or sturdy architectural foliage. However while you’re at a backyard heart, it may be actually—perhaps overwhelming isn’t fairly the suitable phrase, however your eyes actually are larger than your abdomen.
So, I all the time say, begin with one key plant. Begin with the one factor that you just see, perhaps it’s one thing you learn in an article otherwise you’ve seen earlier than otherwise you actually get pleasure from rising. Begin with one plant that you just actually like and construct off of that.
So, that’s my one plant that’s going to go in my container. What can I add to that container that’s going to boost my first plant that I’m including to it? Is it including extra coloration, some complementary coloration, or is it including a textural distinction, or is it including some top, or is it including one thing softer or bolder in distinction to that one factor that you just begin with? I discover it’s a great way to get your self on a observe, as a substitute of simply getting certainly one of every little thing after which you may have one thing a bit extra chaotic because of this.
Margaret: Sure. Generally the one that you just begin with, generally it’s… As a result of for me, I really like foliage—and I wish to speak about that in a minute as a result of I do know foliage is so necessary. It’s not all about flowers in these pots at Chanticleer. I can see a leaf of one thing that’s actually stunning within the backyard heart in spring, there might be this… What do they name it, the copper leaf plant, Acalypha, or perhaps a Coleus with intricate leaf coloration or coloration mixture within the leaf. Then I might be marching across the backyard heart for an hour, searching for issues that go along with that palette, so to talk, as if the leaf is telling me what my design goes to include. It’s like that’s my inspiration. Only one leaf can do it for me [laughter].
David: Yeah. Generally I’ll simply be holding the plan and simply strolling round and holding-
Margaret: Me, too.
David: … others, “O.Ok., is that going to work? Is that going to work?”
Margaret: [Laughter.] We must always store collectively. We’d be an excellent pair.
David: Yeah, that’d be nice. Yeah.
Margaret: Oh. So, foliage. Yeah. Foliage is necessary, proper? I imply, we shouldn’t simply go purchasing for the flowers, flowers. I imply, I do know the Calibrachoa part or the Petunia part are the most important, they usually’ve obtained a billion of them in all these colours, however that’s not the entire story, is it?
David: Oh, no. Foliage makes all of gardening extra dynamic and extra fascinating. Foliage may be very colourful, foliage may be very textural. There’s that saying of “flowers are fleeting, foliage is eternally.” So, there’s one thing to be mentioned about that. Don’t be afraid to select up on that. textures, daring shapes of various flowers. Begonias come to thoughts. Very huge, huge leaves, with an ideal texture. So, pairing that with one thing softer like a Carex, a sedge with delicate foliage or a grass, one thing in distinction that approach. Or some begonias once more, they’ll have actually intricate crimson marooning to that. So, pairing that with one thing that will have a crimson foliage to convey up that coloration right here off of that.
So, the probabilities are countless. Like I mentioned, it’s actually extra about, don’t overthink it. Have enjoyable with what you’re seeing and what you’re doing, and don’t be afraid to attempt one thing new, as a result of that’s how we study. It might not work on a regular basis [laughter], each time, however take notes and construct off of your successes.
Margaret: Do you guys do any bulbs? I really like the pineapple lilies, the Eucomis, as an illustration. Do you do bulbs in pots as nicely? You talked about some minor ones, like seasonal minor ones that we might consider extra as perennials and so forth, however do you plant any pots of bulbs for the summer time?
David: Completely. That’s one thing we’ll do within the fall as a part of after we do our fall bulb planting, we normally find yourself planting lots of our containers with bulbs as nicely to prepare for the season.
I all the time are inclined to, if I’m planting a mattress of tulips in certainly one of my seasonal show beds, I’ll normally put aside 10 or so of these bulbs from that planting, after which I’ll pot up two containers. Just a few easy tulips in a easy terracotta, and overwinter them in our chilly frames. Then within the spring, I can set these out subsequent to my mattress. So, my containers on my terrace match, type of pair, with my show within the beds. It’s a pleasant approach of harmonizing your planting beds with all your containers on the terrace. So, it’s enjoyable to work that approach.
Margaret: It actually underscores the larger message, doesn’t it? Simply these two little pots simply actually underscore the larger planting.
David: Yeah. It’s only a good factor to simply set these apart within the fall. Potting up bulbs within the fall is all the time an exquisite feeling, too, as a result of it’s that first step at preparing for spring and that anticipation. So, we actually get pleasure from that.
Margaret: Proper. Are there sure vegetation you can’t think about being with out within the container designs there? For these of us who wish to perhaps make some investments this yr, and I beloved seeing within the… I can’t bear in mind precisely which week or month it was. However while you all have been—it’d’ve been final yr—trotting it out, when all of the goodies have been beginning to come out of storage, all of the tender issues have been beginning to get… And Chanticleer has such an unimaginable wealth of treasures, what I name “funding vegetation,” issues that I stash in my cellar, which pale by comparability to what you all have. However are there issues that if we’re going to go and buy groceries and get seduced by one thing [laughter], that we might get lots of mileage out of, lots of years out of, lots of oomph out of do you assume, that may work in our containers for years to come back—that you just’d suggest we check out that division within the backyard heart?
David: Oh, certain. Yeah. I believe a few of my favorites that we use right here within the backyard. Begonias are great. I introduced these up earlier than, and there’s so many alternative colours and textures and shapes—forgiving, I believe, over winter while you convey them in for the dearth of sunshine. I actually love sure kinds of tree ferns, particularly ones that truncate or get a bit little bit of top to them. So, Blechnum brasiliense, they’re a bit bit smaller, however they’ve an ideal type, nice form, and different tree ferns that ultimately get to a sure top. These sorts of issues the place you’ll be able to have them inside and you then convey them out and you’ve got that prompt top, prompt structure that we have a tendency to make use of quite a bit.
Margaret: I do know you may have some nice Abyssinian bananas and different banana sort issues. I consider I’ve seen photos that you just use, perhaps not in containers—nicely, some could also be in containers, but in addition you employ in your borders and so forth. They are often nice.
David: Yeah. After I take into consideration bananas as you’re taking the entire culm, the entire root system, and convey that in, they usually can transplant rather well. So, we will have them within the floor one season, we will have them in a container one season, they usually’ll develop out, in order that they’re enjoyable to usher in and out and use in a variety of how. They are typically actually forgiving that approach.
Margaret: Yeah. Do you do swap outs? Do you do early pots, after which summer time pots, after which fall pots? Or do you progressively tease issues out and add issues in and evolve every design—or all the above?
David: Oh, yeah. I imply, a part of gardening is embracing the seasonality of what’s occurring at one time, and issues coming out and in of bloom and coloration and texture. I believe for us, it’s very a lot an evolution by way of the season. So, we open to the general public formally subsequent Wednesday, March twenty seventh, and we’ll be open by way of October. So, it begins with lots of tulips and bulbs and spring annuals in containers. Because the temperatures begin to heat up, I’m slowly type of piecing some issues in and pulling some issues out. So, simply selecting issues out and in, and it’s a gradual transitional course of. The objective is to have it like, “Oh, it’s simply occurring all by itself, isn’t it?”
Margaret: Oh, proper [laughter].
David: Little bit of transitioning.
Margaret: Yeah. No person has to do something, proper, David? [Laughter.]
David: Yeah. Yeah. All of it simply occurs. Isn’t that great?
Margaret: It’s superb. Nicely, David Mattern, I’m so glad to speak to you, and I can’t wait to see photos of the pots as they present up on Instagram, on the Chanticleer one and by yourself.
David: Thanks.
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MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its fifteenth yr in March 2024. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Pay attention regionally within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Japanese, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the March 25, 2024 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You possibly can subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).